| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| super windy |
Posted - 29/04/2008 : 18:13:31
Hi everyone @ gotwind, just to let you guys know and all the other members on this forum that are contemplating on buying the future energy alternator, to be aware that fellow gotwind member donnie, has already gonne through 3 sets off bearings, and the customer service that he received from future energy leaves alot to be desired, he still reckons that its a good alternator, but the bearings are just not up to the job, specially if you like me and donnie were thinking of making your own blade set.
so the search for the "perfect" alternator/generator continues.BUGGER
cheerio
super windy |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| windymiller |
Posted - 04/05/2008 : 13:38:51
Hi Donnie......sorry to hear about the re occuring failure of the fe genny bearings.
I hope you will come to some amicable conclusion in the matter.
Given your position of where you live,i cant help feeling you are in an exceptional windy location where the heavens lungs blow the hardest in relation to all us sheltered inland.
Have you ever considered going all the way and installing a full sized commercial generator for all your needs and more.
Off grid electricity is something we all want do but are simply unable to do so because we,re geographically away from windy open spaces.
I can see your site as being a testing ground for all future designs an real world harsh weather conditions....get through the relentless bashings they will be subjected to and im sure we,d find that perfect wind turbine.
For alternative Energy engineers.....i think Donnies location would be hard to beat!!!!.
Free wind....you,ve got it.......we dream of it.
My point is make the most of it,its on your doorstep
Cheers windymiller. |
| Del |
Posted - 04/05/2008 : 13:27:10
Ok, thanks Ben.
I think to move this on now, I'll speak to Futurenergy again and suggest I meet with them to put forward the points we've stated and queried so I can report back to the forum accordingly.
As a worldwide forum we do hold some significant influence and I think we bought about 7 units from them in January so probabaly £800 pounds worth of business plus the potential for far more follow up business from us writing on the forum of our satisfaction or dis-satisfaction as appropriate.
I'll keep you all posted. If any of the other buyers from the January batch want to contact me without posting on this thread then please feel free to PM me.
Thanks
Del. |
| donniedingle |
Posted - 04/05/2008 : 13:06:22
Hi Del
Just a few points here, they have had every opurtunity to send me some bearings, or the cost of them.
the balancing of blades you refer to is there own blades, theres are not out of the box like you may seem, i think windy can back me up here.
the spares issue .... well i'm just a crofter / farmer and i carry most spares i am likely to need for my machinery, hence me keeping stocks of those bearings (just luck).
They have never been happy since day 1 when i first posted about my problems with them, i have a folder here full of emails etc. I bought and paid for a piece of machinery that is not up to its job full stop.
And its my personal property Del and if i want to tell the whole world about my experience with it i will, a good example ......Jeremy Clarkson, on tv's Top Gear, he like me says it as it is, if the car is junk he says its junk, if its good he praises it.
And as for sending them the bearings for assessment, no way not now, its gone on to long, they are mine payed for.... and besides after taking advice i'm keeping hold of them. The first set to go were just cheap chinese rough and ready bearings del, had it been uk manufactured and being such a claimed reliable unit, it would have decent SKF, or RHP or Timken bearings installed.
We all know what the warrenty is now, i think all the people viewing this thread have read them, and to think its a shame that all these watchers could have bought this pmg. and all for the sake of better service.
The Sunday Post, they have a real good column for the likes of this, and like i have stated i'd even go as far as starting my own web page to focus on the matter. Just i believe in fairness Del, not something they cannie explain.
Donnie.
just keep her spinning.. |
| gotwind |
Posted - 04/05/2008 : 12:52:06
I'm happy to let you deal with this Del, if you wish.
Ta.
Ben. |
| Del |
Posted - 04/05/2008 : 12:12:54
Hi Donnie,
At the time of writing I would still buy the Futurenergy PMA so am happy with my purchase.
My reasons are:
1) I wanted a reasonably powerful PMA that didn't need ridiculously high RPM's.
2) I wanted to buy it from the EU, and preferably from the UK.
3) It needed to be reasonably priced.
I've re-read Futurenergy's guarantee (warranty) and it offers a two year warranty. The statutory minimum is one year. The warranty also commences from date of installation or 90 days after shipment (whichever is the sooner).
Any warranty will only provide assurance against defective parts and/or workmanship and the details of the warranty procedure and any exclusions are set by the seller.
Futurenergy's warranty is compliant with what they are required to offer and does in fact go beyond that of the minimum. It offers two years warranty rather than one year. It does not automatically commence from date of receipt and gives up to 90 days in this respect. The exclusions to the warranty (all warranties on all products are limited) are clearly defined and in this respect is explicitly defines to the user what may damage the unit or any associated items such as the blades, controller, inverter and batteries.
Futurenergy have also stated that the blades must be balanced after assembly and that is the responsibility of the installer or it may cause damage to the unit. Associated document of their website go into further deatil on this to assist accordingly. They also state that damage may be caused exposure to high winds or over-spinning.
All in all, on paper it's a fairly decent warranty that goes beyond legislative requirements. I think the unit would probabaly fail in two main ways in that it would burn out or wear out the bearings. I'm not sure how Futurenergy would be able to prove that the damage or fault was due to some of the listed exclusions that are beyond their control. This is where customer service comes in and the recommendations (or otherwise) of previous customers as to what they will do in cases where it cannot be determined as to the reason behind the failure.
What's not covered by the warranty is failure as a result of design, although you wouldn't normally see that in a warranty. The unit has to be fit for purpose and of reasonable and mercantable quality. There is separate legislation that covers this area.
As for stocking spares, most modern suppliers do not keep stocks of everything. To remain competitive and efficient it is perfectly normal to operate various stock methodologies including zero stocks wherby a companies own supplier hold stocks for them but are able to respond to orders extremely quickly. Without rambling on for pages and pages it is very costly to hold stocks or carries risk. Better to work with their downstream suppliers and ensure they can react to orders with sufficient speed.
I think Futurenergy and yourself could have handled this better than you have. You need a unit where you can get spares VERY quickly if required as you're off grid. In hindsight this is something we should have sorted with Futurenergy before we decided to buy. I think we should have also got some long term user evaluations and opinions.
I think I'd send your first lot of bearings to Futurenergy so they can inspect them to see if they can establish the reason for the failure.
I'm really keen that we calm this thread down and work with Futurenergy as there are few alternatives to their product in the UK. Ideally it would be great if we could establish closer links with them and obtain preferential rates through Gotwind in return for promoting them and providing them with real life user trials and feedback.
I think certainly that there are areas they could improve on and make clearer and I'm sure they would be more than happy to listen and hear what their customers have to say if that were undertaken in the correct way and that's probabaly not via an open web forum.
Futurenergy have my contact details so can contact me any time and I'd be more than happy to meet with them to iron out these issues for a better relationship into the future.
Cheers
Del.
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| donniedingle |
Posted - 03/05/2008 : 14:00:59
Well put sundowner, just say it like it is, its only the hard facts we want.
donnie.
just keep her spinning.. |
| donniedingle |
Posted - 03/05/2008 : 13:58:40
hi del
thats great you inviting them on here, will they come.? But like ya say Del it all needs sorting out, i'd never have bought the piece of piece of c*** in the first place from a firm who does not stock spares or give a decent warrenty, and thats a big factor for me living up here in the wilds.
super windy asked regarding a warrenty ......only to be put through to another dept.
You being a company buyer Del, would you have bought one if you had known all the facts now emerging .??
the citizens advice have told me to seek trading standards advive, more money for the 30 mile round trip to attend the appointment, geeeeshhh i cannie win ....lol.
regards donnie.
just keep her spinning.. |
| Sundowner |
Posted - 03/05/2008 : 13:49:52
Hi Ben and all at gotwind,
I've been reading this posting for the past few days and find it extremly interesting.
It appears that the experience in relation to the product being discussed is varied.
I would suggest that if anyone is interested in buying one of these, (I am),The company in question should be able to answer a few specific questions.
1)In relation to the manafacture of the generator, Do you as a company manafacture the generator from self produced parts ?.
If yes, is it possible to visit the production facility.
If no what parts specifically do you outsource and from where.
Do you as a company have a quality control system in place in relation to outsourced parts ?.
If in the event of problems with the unit ( outside any warrenties offered by the company) do you stock a supply of spare parts.
If any company offers a product for sale and then fails in the basic duty of supplying spare parts or at least having the ability to source spares( at the buyers expense) then the company wouldn't be getting my business.
Would you buy a car/washing machine/video player/bike etc etc if you thought that you couldn't get spares from the manafacturer.
Sundowner....huh.........thats what they call us.......Sundowners |
| donniedingle |
Posted - 03/05/2008 : 13:48:15
hi fungus.
yes sorry about that i may have explained myself badly and i was reading from his squiddly writing ....lol. no i meant to say a 24v unit as bought from futurenrgy, or a 48v model, they only give low amps in comparision to the 12v unit. and are needeing less torque to run them i think thats how he meant it .
donnie.
just keep her spinning.. |
| fungus |
Posted - 03/05/2008 : 10:35:40
Donnie; I think your friend might be confusing using the same generator at a higher voltage to the ones specifically wound for the higher voltage at the same speed, if an alternator is wound to make 12v at XXXrpm and you have another one thats identical apart from the winding that makes 24v at XXXrpm then there would be no difference .. While its true that having 10A out versus 20A out will have half the torque, with the different voltages theres still the same power out. |
| Del |
Posted - 03/05/2008 : 10:31:58
Hi all,
Very interesting what your mate has said Donnie about different voltage units and the strain on the bearings.
I did actually speak to Futurenergy again yeasterday and have invited them to respond via the forum as to the points being raised.
I'm sure any reputable company is not going to want to get involved in an on-line slanging match, but I've suggested that they outline their conditions of warranty to correct any misunderstandings plus any comments they may feel appropriate regarding the bearings and customer service.
Their warranty conditions are on their website I believe, but it would be nice to welcome them to the forum so we can either move this discussion on or put it to bed.
Cheers
Del. |
| donniedingle |
Posted - 02/05/2008 : 22:48:13
Hi Windies
Firstly i agree with what Del just wrote, there is UK law to protect the buyer, of a commodity or service.
Now i rang my pal at the college, and he has neither the time or resources at the moment to do a full test on the PMG, but, he offered to call and give it a quick once over....which he did tonight whilst i was sowing corn, he dismantled the PMG, and he feels pretty sure its of chinese origin, and not britsh, the lack of pressure to fit and remove the bearings leads him to think its not of Parkinson, or GEC quality, now to help everybody here, he suggests a new alloy casting for the end covers that hold the bearings, and into that could be machined a bigger housing to accept a larger bearing, easy eh!
Now his next comments to me are confusing, if it was a 24v or a 48v those bearings would be pretty acceptable, just that the 12v model produces a greater amperage and consequently its harder to turn under load hence the bearing wear, now a 24v produces far less amperage and is far easier to turn, and likewise for for the 48v unit which would be easier still on the bearings, this make sense to you all ....lol. But he would like to see the actual balance of the unit with out any blades attached, and check that out too. but he thought my blades where pretty good for balance, and cannot see the 1 gram unit being so critical on such a low speed unit, but there is a force called a couple? balance front and rear of the blades i think he meant, its the same as balancing a car wheel, sometimes weights are added to each side of the wheel and not just to one side of the rim.
but i agree with victor, i'm not trying to put them out of business, far from it,i did contact them to see if they had s/h or shop soiled blades that i could buy to prove once and for all its not the bearings but my wind conditions and blade set up, i'm looking for help and assistance and some new bearings, i think we need Ben to invite them to the forum, and to give us a run down on balance,warranty terms, and most of all how to get the most from the unit, Now that all my renewables are 12v based i'd like to have tried a 24v unit, alot of the guys on utube, are running 24/48v units, so maybe a valid point in my pals observations, that 12v is much harder to turn when producing full power, and then excessive load goes onto the wee bearings.
But as my pal said tonight, give them a chance to put it right before i go and slap it in there laps, and if they cannot or won't, go along the lines that Del quite rightly said. but in essence he said it was a pretty simple design and should be trouble free for years.
regards Donnie.
just keep her spinning.. |
| fungus |
Posted - 02/05/2008 : 20:08:55
super windy ; I'm assuming you're talking about the renewablecomponents one .. its pretty much the same as the futurenergy in terms of usage etc, I think they even use the same blades, it has a 1" shaft which is a bit larger than the futurenergy and has three holes to bolt into. It is 10v/100rpm. I didnt actually get the exact one that they use for wind turbines, I got one that had 4 times the cogging torque and converted it into an aircore , but its pretty much exactly the same and it looks nice. |
| super windy |
Posted - 02/05/2008 : 15:00:03
Nope del. I am looking at the one that I think fungus has altough would it be usable for 12v, maybe fungus can clarify it seems that it does 10v per 100 rpm, so can it be used for 12v??, is that what you are using it for fungus, or have you gonne 24 volts.
cheers
super windy |
| Del |
Posted - 02/05/2008 : 10:30:06
Irrespective of what ANY company verbally states, or is alleged to have said, as a purchaser of an item you are afforded protection under UK law and no supplier can simply state whatever they choose to sidestep a genuine warranty claim.
So you definetely didn't buy a Futurenergy unit then Superwindy?
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