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super windy
Junior Member
195 Posts |
 Posted - 29/04/2008 : 18:13:31
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Hi everyone @ gotwind, just to let you guys know and all the other members on this forum that are contemplating on buying the future energy alternator, to be aware that fellow gotwind member donnie, has already gonne through 3 sets off bearings, and the customer service that he received from future energy leaves alot to be desired, he still reckons that its a good alternator, but the bearings are just not up to the job, specially if you like me and donnie were thinking of making your own blade set.
so the search for the "perfect" alternator/generator continues.BUGGER
cheerio
super windy
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fungus
Junior Member
249 Posts |
Posted - 29/04/2008 : 18:57:51
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| Just remember that he is on a very windy site right at the north of scotland with winds all around .. I'd suspect that they'd last longer in a typical urban environment. |
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gotwind
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
760 Posts |
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fungus
Junior Member
249 Posts |
Posted - 29/04/2008 : 20:03:11
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| Ben - they're pretty much exactly the same (the one you linked to vs. the one I got) and I can confirm that they too have ball bearings .. but they're not necessarily bad imho as long as there isnt too much thrust load on them .. if you're concerned its always possible to add an external thrust bearing. |
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Hefhoover
Starting Member
United Kingdom
30 Posts |
Posted - 29/04/2008 : 20:41:02
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Well done Super Windy for naming and shaming, I know Donnie has had bearing "issues" too and I heartily agree with doing this if their product or customer service is poor!
I think anyone with one of these devices should contact a bearing supplier and seek their advice as there are some better quality bearings than others, also load and speed ratings, better quality seals and it may be possible to fit angular contact or similar type of bearings to avoid having to fit a seperate thrust device.
Hef 
PS, just noticed now that the Ginlong uses good quality Brand bearings, but they are C3 type (C3 clearance just means that the bearing has slightly more than standard internal clearance, usually for applications where the bearing would run hot) and may not be the ideal type for this application. |
Edited by - Hefhoover on 29/04/2008 20:50:48 |
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gotwind
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
760 Posts |
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fungus
Junior Member
249 Posts |
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Del
Junior Member
United Kingdom
361 Posts |
Posted - 29/04/2008 : 23:55:29
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Hi all,
For those of you that aren't aware, I'm the gotwinder that arranged the initial deal with Futurenergy in early January this year and that included Donnie's unit.
Yes Donnie does get MASSIVE winds up where he is so cannot really be seen as a typical user. I would certainly prefer that the units had some find of thrust bearing in them, but as long as the furling mechanism works and moves the unit out of the wind AT THE RIGHT WIND LEVEL then that SHOULD protect the unit from damage.
Without checking the stats on the different voltage versions, I think the 24v version reaches it max current output at only around 500rpm, so doesn't need gale force winds to get a decent output. If your unit is not furling at this rpm then you're running the risk that the unit could sustain damage to its bearings and may even burn out.
Being vaiguely mechanically sympathetic, personally I wouldn't run any mechanical device at its maximum rating, so with the Futurenergy units I'd be having mine furl out of the wind at around 75 to 80% of it's maximum rating.
I'd also like to see Futurenergy given a right of reply to put their side on the forum rather than having their prouct dissed on the basis of one user who gets 70mph winds.
Hefhoover also makes a good point about bearing quality. Donnie's first bearing wore out vertually immediately so it may have been a dodgy bearing in the first place. As Donnie is off grid he needed the turbine back up and running without any delay so had to source replacement bearings locally and press them in himself. I think (but I'm not sure) Futurenergy were going to send him a replacement set in the post. Donnie - I hope I have got this right?
I was wondering if the bladeset on a Futurenergy unit would benefit from a nose on it to sweep the wind around the central flat surface of the unit, or even be better suited to a downwind setup.
There is a chap over in Northern Ireland - I think he goes by the name of "Hilltop Grange" and I've read some of his contributions on another wind website forum. Anyway this chap uses Futurenergy PMG's and has one on the top of a very tall tower. If anyone is in contact with this chap perhaps he would give his view on the units from his own experience with them.
Thank you for reading
Cheers
Del.
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donniedingle
Junior Member
United Kingdom
101 Posts |
Posted - 30/04/2008 : 11:01:58
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Hi Fellow Windies.
Well yes i'm on my 3rd set of bearings in this PMG but my gripe was when the first went they did NOT keep bearings in stock that was in my posting back then, as of yet i have had no bearings from them Del, but to hell with them i buy SKF bearings the same size for my seed drill, so spares where not an issue, more a lack of them keeping bearings, but we are swinging home made blades on skate board size bearings, i sold one of my chinese units to a friend after 2 years service, and the BIG bearings where as new, and thats in a 200w unit, which by the way is not much more than a futureenergy unit, (and its a complete ready to use out of the box) geeeezzzzz i thought i was buying the rolls royce of PMG's and would be trouble free for years.
The last time i had it down i noticed all the white enamel paint bubbling with the salt air i guess, once again the chinese unit scores better with having a plastic shroud, over to top of the unit. As for fitting bigger bearings there is no room in the houseing to machine it out for a bigger cased bearing oh believe you me i looked ....lol.
My last correspondence with futurenergy i emailed to ask if they had a secondhand or shop soiled set of blades that i would try these i was prepared to buy, only to recieve a reply that they had nothing nor would they have, just a price for a set of new blades, and listen ....they are balanced to within 1 gram, but reading there website its is the user responsibility to balance.!!!!! Well i have done static balancing tests on my blades and they are fine, i even spun the complete unit up on my wood lathe with swivel headstock, and at 800rpm apart from blowing anything that was not fastened down into the air they appear fine, with no shaking or flexing, (a scarey job) but i least i tried my blade set to test for any imbalance. and all is well with them.
I have watched and studied my furling system in a gale and after some adjustments it too works to within expectations, it starts to furl just a wee bit later than my chinese unit, but in full force of the gale its fully furled.
I can only express my own problems wether they be unique or the fact they are just not up to the job as stated, well certainly not for up here.
To overcome my problems, i have just bought my 3rd chinese unit, imbalanced and noisy they are great, and besides its just a days job to re-work the blades as i have done in the past, just keep the welder handy for any fatigue cracks in the mast and tail fin, but i think 2 yrs hard work with no troubles and for the £230.00 delivered (as then) is cheap reliable generation.
But futurenergy are attending an exhibition in aberdeen, just 200 miles away, well guys i'll be there with my pmg over my shoulder and a bag of knackered bearings, and i'll be putting my case forward to them.
regards Donnie.
just keep her spinning.. |
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Del
Junior Member
United Kingdom
361 Posts |
Posted - 30/04/2008 : 15:32:07
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Nice one Donnie.
I think you have the 12v unit don't you?
I've just checked the stats for that unit and it's at maximum output (46 Amps) at 380 rpm, which when using the Futurenergy blades is 31.5mph (14m/s). Your unit should therefore be furled out of the wind at this speed to protect itself from damage. I would think your Chinese unit would be happy at spinning at slightly higher windspeeds than this so you may want to adjust the weight of your Futurenergy tail lighten it) so it furls earlier.
Cheers
Del.
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donniedingle
Junior Member
United Kingdom
101 Posts |
Posted - 30/04/2008 : 18:11:39
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Hi Del
yes i do have the 12v unit
Regards my furling del, i just ain't had 46amps, 40amps yes and fully furled, i have just tweaked her the other way. But the needle is very unsteady another sign the bearings are going yet again, the air gap can be measured in thou's del (it is that small of a gap), any way its comeing down any day now will go under the bench with all the other disgusting things, i will be putting my new chinese unit in its place.
I have been on to the big motor rewinders in aberdeen and i'm sending it there for a full and frank report, (this is on my friend the electricians advice) they rewind motors for offshore duties on oil rigs del. So i'll get it done and collect prior to my visit to this exibition they are attending in aberdeen, and then i can tackle them with some hard facts.
But to quote figures Del is useless, at the end of the day it is not doing what it is claimed to do, never mind my exposed location, it is what goes into the battery bank, we windies are good at harvesting the wind, futureenergies blades are balanced to within 1 gram, f**k i asked the postie how heavy a gram...lol, more weight in my spit ....lol. god if i did not laugh i'd cry at such a great unit spoiled by some clown fitting micky mouse roller boot bearings.
And have you had yours running yet del..? give the bugga a good testing before you flit abroad lol.
Donnie.
just keep her spinning.. |
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super windy
Junior Member
195 Posts |
Posted - 30/04/2008 : 18:55:01
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Hi guys, I am with donnie on this one, mainly because I rang the lady in question, and she told me how great the alternator was, how many happy customers they have got etc.., but then I asked her about what sort of warranty do they give on just the alternator, and mainly the bearings only to be told that she is just a sales person,(changed her tune), and that she would tranfer me to the technical department, after 7 minutes waiting, a fella camme along and he told me that they can't really warranty the alternator, since its a different manufacturer that makes the blades, and its down to the customer to balance the blades, so this is how I personally see it, you spend almost £700 on a new turbine, then after 6 or 7 months the bearings go, you ring them up, for a start they will inform you that they don't keep spares, and the reason why the bearings went is because you may haven't balanced the blades properly, because 98% of the people haven't ever balanced blades before they will believe that and they would probably be charged for the alternator to be returned and sent back to them, I just think that if you research the bearings on this alternator they are rated has race bearings, and they are meant to travel in a straight line, i.e skateboards, roller blades, etc, they are not designed for having loads of torque pushed against the side, so they will eventually fail.
I am not an engineer and haven't got a clue about electrics, I'm just a wood bruiser, and can tell you that when I first started my trade I used to buy cordless drills for £40 to £60, from whatever brand, and after using them for 4 months on a daily basis, they would burnout, so after 5 to 6 years on buying cheap drills and spending almost £800 to almost a thousand pounds I decided that it was time to buy the top of the range, yes it did cost me at the time £295 for an 18v dewalt battery drill, yes I have had it for 7 years, yes it still works perfect, and yes it was money well spent. So my point is if you are spending good money on something you want it to be reliable and to work on a daily basis without issues, and to be built with the best components.
That's my rant for the day, I feel better now that I got that off my chest, I'll just go and see if the missus is in the mood.
got to go
super windy |
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Hefhoover
Starting Member
United Kingdom
30 Posts |
 Posted - 30/04/2008 : 19:04:07
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Excellent idea Donnie, getting some professional "hard facts".
You're a bloody hero (or absolutely nuts!), testing the blades on the lathe at 800 rpm!
All the best, Hef. |
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donniedingle
Junior Member
United Kingdom
101 Posts |
Posted - 30/04/2008 : 19:25:59
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Hi Superwindy
Well i'm glad you spoke the lady ..lol. (sandra) well i'm glad you got the hard facts windy, they should have stated all those facts when the 5 of us bought them, and my bet is not many if any would have taken up the offer. But you were right to ask windy, and get the facts from the techie guys ...lol. but your right to say you expect the best from your machines/turbines. When i was serving my time i bought good tools and still use them to this day, But you would think they would have tested the unit with better bearings, and got it fool proof. like a lot of green energy firms all keen to get there mints on your money. just we are not fools and have played around with wind turbines along time.
donnie.
just keep her spinning.. |
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donniedingle
Junior Member
United Kingdom
101 Posts |
Posted - 30/04/2008 : 19:31:29
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hi hef,
sorry i missed your posting there, it was a job that had to be done for my peace of mind yes it was scarey but i was yards away ready to pull the plug,but it was fine and nice to see them spinning at speed at eye level.
yes hard facts are a must hef, but i have not explored the alternative gov agencies we tax payers support (trading standards etc).
Regards Donnie.
just keep her spinning.. |
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gotwind
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
760 Posts |
Posted - 30/04/2008 : 20:50:11
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All very interesting.
I'd Like to be 'a fly on the wall' when Donnie attends the Aberdeen Futurenergy fair/show.
Futurenergy have claimed testing of the alternator in various locations.
http://www.futurenergy.co.uk/case.html
I am not one to try and raise doubt on a companys reputation whatsoever, business is tough enough - especially for small U.K companies.
As has been said, hard facts need to be used in such discussions.
I'm a great believer in working together - Hell, it's in all our best interests...
Superwindy - Thanks for the Dewalt drill advice - I'm looking for a good cordless drill myself.
You certainly do get what you pay for - maybe a little more with the chinese turbines (which is nice).
Ben. |
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Topic |
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NON PURCHASE OF FUTURE ENERGY ALTERNATOR
