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windymiller
New Member
United Kingdom
86 Posts |
 Posted - 15/05/2008 : 09:04:58
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Hi ben and all
Ive got a question i feel i must ask which seems relevant to all of us interested in renewable energy.
Forgive me ben if its slightly moving away from topics normally discussed
It seems to me that the process of destruction is taking a big leap in the direction of reaching the point of stupidity.
We see the cost of our food increasing nearly every week ....food shortages.....more starvation on every part of the globe due to seemingly making the production of biofuel more important to power vehicles than to feed ourselves?.
(Bio fuel being an alternative source of fuel for our vehicles petrol /diesel).
The government are now making it compulsory for fuel suppliers to add biofuel ( around 2% at the moment )as a useable source for the masses.
Looks like the "belly" of the motor car is going to put another nail in the coffin of the environment.
Whats everyones view on this?...im pretty miffed about the impact it will have in the immediate term of the planet!
Sorry for the moaning ,but im really angry about it.
Cheers WM
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fungus
Moderator
290 Posts |
Posted - 15/05/2008 : 11:10:31
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Sure it has a (very small) effect (think its about 5% of food crops) but theres many other users of crops that can cut down very quickly the amount .. take meat production which uses 80% of all grains but is about 54:1 protein input => protein output ... pretty obvious to see how easily that can free up otherwise available grain if we stopped eating it .. funny how people only bitch about small things that dont really have any effect on them but when it comes round to them you draw a blank ...
</rant> ;-) |
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windymiller
New Member
United Kingdom
86 Posts |
Posted - 15/05/2008 : 17:14:33
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Ill treat that with the contempt it deserves.
Next time you have your eggs and bacon remember where it comes from and what fed the animal
oh..........and dont forget your ice cream lol. lol lol
We dont keep animals for just meat you know!!!!!!.
Cheers WM
Edited to put another LOL in [:D
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Edited by - windymiller on 15/05/2008 18:29:11 |
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Tim L
New Member
United Kingdom
70 Posts |
Posted - 15/05/2008 : 17:37:03
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which is one reason I'm looking forward to tissue culture meat, rather than having to kill an animal to get it. Much more ethical than killing something with a mind, even if it's only the tiny insane mind of a salmon in order to have something to go with my dill sauce.
More pertinently, H. Sapiens is an omnivore. We evolved to eat anything that we can keep down best out of three, and we can stay alive in places where a goat would starve. We are not obligate carnivores, but neither are we obligate herbivores, and some of the things we need are pretty rare in the plant world (though not impossible to get if one is careful and plans properly). I would prefer to go with Nature rather than against it, and PETA's recent reported prize competition for producing tissue culture meat is a sensible, ethical and pragmatic way forward, in my opinion.
Note: A YouTube Video Is Not Necessarily Proof Of Anything At All
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpNp4l0qyY0 |
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fungus
Moderator
290 Posts |
 Posted - 15/05/2008 : 20:52:39
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quote:
Originally posted by windymiller
Ill treat that with the contempt it deserves.
Next time you have your eggs and bacon remember where it comes from and what fed the animal
oh..........and dont forget your ice cream lol. lol lol
We dont keep animals for just meat you know!!!!!!.
Thats (one of the many reasons) why I'm vegan. |
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windymiller
New Member
United Kingdom
86 Posts |
Posted - 15/05/2008 : 23:13:30
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Okay lets bring it down to ground level....no need to fall out about it.
The devil is in the detail of my original message though......read carfully and it makes no mention of what you have been upset about ( using animals for food )They have just as much right to live on the planet as you and i do.....and eat good quality vegitation as you and i do!. Whether your a vegan or not doesnt really come into it,thats your choice with good reasons .
My argument is that the governments of the world are focusing on our sustanance as a alternative source of fuel for our vehicles.
If the facts are true about poor food stocks for the entire world,then they should put the idea on hold instead of making things worse.
Personally id like food in my families bellys at an affordable price rather than fill the belly of a lump of iron with wheels on .....kinda makes more sense!!!
Just think for a minute....if food ever got dangerously low in supply im pretty confident that there wouild be dangerous reprocussions causing possible civil unrest......lets hope it never reaches that point.
Cheers WM
ps Fungus ...no hard feelings lifes too short |
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gholt
New Member
USA
88 Posts |
Posted - 16/05/2008 : 05:46:58
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Windymiller,
Spot on ... and food IS dangerously low in many areas of the world accompanied by violence and terror. It's not a bad dream, it's a nightmare we all share.
G. |
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fungus
Moderator
290 Posts |
Posted - 16/05/2008 : 13:03:22
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Yes but my point is that the effect of biofuels on food supplies is currently very low and there would be a much larger effect on the crisis by eating less meat, especially cutting down waste of food (I heard it was about 50% of food thats chucked away ..), eating less for some people ;-) .. etc , all I'm really saying is that solutions/problems aren't always in the hands of the large governments but in the hands of the people.
And in my post I was saying about the environmental impact of meat not the ethical problems of it which is what Tim L brought in (which is also an important issue but not quite relevant to the topic) , as I said animals are hugely inefficient and they use up about 90% of all grain thats grown in the US for an example. |
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Tim L
New Member
United Kingdom
70 Posts |
Posted - 16/05/2008 : 13:59:26
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Fungus, my point (and, re-reading my post, it's what I left out - Doh!) was that vegetarianism is still a minority pursuit (between 5 and 10 million out of a UK population of around 60 million, one of the highest ratios in the Western world) and as far as I can see is likely to remain so in the foreseeable future, which is why I was pleased with PETA's uncharacteristic recognition of reality.
I don't know what energy input will be needed to grow meat in vitro, but in order to be "commercially viable" - part of the prize conditions - it is likely to be much lower per kilo than growing it in vivo. Lower costs mean lower prices, and so cultured meat is likely to displace animal-sourced meat.
With the number of food animals falling significantly, more land will be freed for growing plants and feedstock for the culture tanks, or leaving fallow, or forestry (although I do also recall reading that England has more forest acreage today than at any time since the reign of Queen Elizabeth 1, apparently because ships are built from steel these days). Not a problem for me though, I like trees.
Note: A YouTube Video Is Not Necessarily Proof Of Anything At All
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpNp4l0qyY0 |
Edited by - Tim L on 16/05/2008 16:27:52 |
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gotwind
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
843 Posts |
Posted - 16/05/2008 : 22:13:14
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Hi Windymiller.
It is slightly moving away from topics normally discussed - it's not a problem.
I am a wind and solar biased man , that is what I enjoy to discuss really - saving money and more I hope..
Chat away...
Ben. |
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BushWhacker
Junior Member
Canada
276 Posts |
Posted - 17/05/2008 : 08:13:08
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Well I guess it's time for me to weigh in as "the bad guy".
http://www.friendsofscience.org/
If you look at relief efforts by the western world regarding disaster or famine you will see corrupt government in third world countries hijacking food shipments that are then sold in the black markets. should I feel bad that a corrupt government rules a third world country? I think not as I didn't vote them in.
I believe that global warming is big business more than anything else and human contributions amount to a minuscule amount of 'climate change' which is in itself a natural occurring feature of planet Earth. For all of the global warming pundits, I simply ask how activities on Earth are causing the warming on Mars? The Sun which we have no control over has cycles that cause warm and cool periods on Earth and the rest of our solar system.
Think about this, would Greenland have been colonized if it were called Iceberg a thousand years ago? Around the same time the Vikings colonized Atlantic Canada and called it Vineland because of all of the naturally growing grapes found there. Not so today.
Methane has about 40 times the impact of CO2 per volume unit. Why pray tell didn't the multi millions of buffalo that roamed North America, chewing cud, burping and farting, cause global warming back when the herds were huge?
Al Gores 'Inconvenient Truth' sports the 'Hockey Stick' temperature chart that conveniently omits data that shows a temperature spike some years back. Why is that? If you look into data collection in the US many stations are on the sunny side of parking lots all but surrounded by buildings. What the heck do you expect from a low tech solar oven?
Personally I am far more concerned with pollution than with global warming. The Kyoto protocol does NOTHING to address pollution. We have the ability to do something about pollution, and next to nothing about global warming. Where should we focus our efforts?
Alternative energy does something about pollution, therefore in my eyes it is a positive thing. Reduction of CO2 is a handy by product but not my primary concern.
You can throw rotten fruit and vegetables at me now,
BW
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler. - Albert Einstein |
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windymiller
New Member
United Kingdom
86 Posts |
Posted - 17/05/2008 : 14:05:21
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Hi bushwhacker.
you wont be getting missiles from my direction !!!!!...you made some very valid points
My rotting veg is on its way to the compost heap......nice to know someones thinking on the same wavelength.
Cheers WM |
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Food for cars
